[t!tg walk]: Remove/convert shop items from walk furni drops

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

hello! i hope this suggestion isn't too ridiculous haha

 

*Suggestion: t!tg walk; i have two suggestions, either one can work i think!

1 - remove items that are already in the shop from the range of items that you can find on walks ;;

or:

2 - allow users to convert shop-available [+not token-only] walk drops into pet food [e.g. 50% of the shop price's worth of pet food]

 

*Reason: furniture drop rate is pretty low to begin with, even with the vote buffs, and i feel that only walk-exclusive items/colour variations should drop from walks

items that are already in the store can't really be resold to other users either if you don't need them yourself [because they're in the shop], so those are like wasted drops, in a way ;;

e.g.: helpdesk empty - in shop, 13k credits ---> option to convert to 325 pet food 
blue metal folding chair - in shop, 9k credits ---> 225 pet food 
orange potted fern - in shop, 15k credits --> 375 pet food
etc.

converting shop-available drops into pet food rather than currency directly should also help control currency inflation

since you'd only be able to convert shop-available items and the drop chance is 0.6% for furni and cosmetics combined [according to the wiki], you also won't end up in a situation where you have a ton of unused pet food

granted, you also get credit drops from walks, but with how narrow the range of convertable items would be and their low drop rate, it still shouldn't be a problem

 

thanks for hearing me out!

[Gabe || Игорь#6666]

I'll begging for this change but with 75% of pet food worth to exchange, I mean don't forget your labor work in walk of how many command it requires you to manually add and wait and add and wait and etc

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

7 hours ago, Gabe /trash rat man#4075 said:

I'll begging for this change but with 75% of pet food worth to exchange, I mean don't forget your labor work in walk of how many command it requires you to manually add and wait and add and wait and etc

yeah that'd be great! ngl at this point i'd even be happy with a 50% return, anything's better than just having pages of non-exclusive furniture clogging the drop pool

another solution could be to allow us to sell shop-available items back "to the bot" in a way, for 60-80% of their shop price a bit like that thing they did with selling supporter items recently

it'd also help get some returns on non-tradable things that you don't plan to use anymore, like your old house after you buy a new one

[Lyrialas#8499]

Just fyi, you can sell shop items at reduced price to other players.

That aside, I for my part would prefer to have shop items removed from walking.
Considering how each month new walk-only items are added, it would increase the chance to get those.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Lyrialas#8499

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

12 hours ago, Lyrialas#8499 said:

Just fyi, you can sell shop items at reduced price to other players.

That aside, I for my part would prefer to have shop items removed from walking.
Considering how each month new walk-only items are added, it would increase the chance to get those.

i'm aware! but they're far from a guaranteed return/sale is what i mean, and given the low drop chance of items it's not ideal 

i second this tho, removing them from the pool entirely is def the best solution in any case

[spidey💎#7683]

At the very least, remove the older shop items that are not really used much anymore. We all have enough dark wood padded chairs and assorted shades of wooden coffee tables and tables to furnish everyone’s house, and even when I posted them for free on my ad, it took 3 weeks and donating almost half of them for a giveaway to get rid of them. 
The items with multiple versions are always available in selling ads, and they just sit in my inventory. 
 

I did make sections of my ad for the cheaper furniture, so new players could see them easily, and I have been able to sell more that way, but it’s still annoying.

 

It would also be nice to see the new cosmetics added to walks, although it might make their value drop some, the newer cosmetics are better than the older ones, and the designation of “walk only” is confusing to new players who think that means they are more valuable. 

[Lyrialas#8499]

The walks are rather confusing anyway, when talking about the values of items.
Like how a common Towel is worth way more than a very rare Golden Unicorn Horn.
And why? Just because the common item drops way rarer than the very rare one.
So either the description, or more likely the drop rates, aren't correct either.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Lyrialas#8499

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

yeah 100% this- what really messes up the value is the fact that the common item drop pool is much bigger than the very rare drop pool, which makes each individual common item relatively way rarer than a "very rare"

while the actual drop rate per rarity might be accurate [? there was no data on the wiki last i checked but my friend and i made our own data set], the huge difference in drop pool size is what breaks the whole idea of rarity

 

i guess walk only stuff is "supposed" to be more valuable but because a lot of it doesn't look all that great [e.g. the visors] it hurts the value in the same way that the partly-misleading rarity label does

if you factor in the cost of pet food and the chances of a furni/item drop, they probably come out more expensive than they would be if you just bought them in the shop, so even if you actually need this furniture you'd be best off getting a hand-me-down off someone or just buying it directly rather than trying to win the t!tg walk lottery

 

you know another thing that would be nice tho? if they made new furniture entirely rather than just 100 recolours

like sorry but i don't want 50 shades of metal folding chairs  it bloats the drop pool with what's basically identical items

[unless they decide to count all recolours as "one item" in terms of drop %? eg it could also work if all metal folding chairs were "one item" and then internally it rerolled for the colour you get; suppose there's 120 items in the pool and 5 recolours [same rarity assumed just for argument's sake], the chance of getting a folding metal chair of any colour is 4.16% [5/120] vs 0.86% [1/116], the latter of which would help bring the exclusivity back]

Edited October 11, 2021 by ᴅᴇɪɴ'ᴛ#8467
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[Lyrialas#8499]

Hm, yeah. The drop pool size probably plays a role. Though which exactly depends on the drop mechanism.
Because that alone can't explain, why the Golden Unicorn Horn is my most dropped item
And the Towel is also somewhat strange, because it's a lot rarer compared to other common items.
(Just compare the amount of search results of certain items)

As for cosmetics, they are less of a problem in my opinion, because you can at least trade them up (or sell them to those who do).
And I disagree about the costs, because walking is a credit positive activity since one of the last updates.

Though your idea to first roll for the item and afterwards for it's colour sounds good. Would be a possible solution.
ButI'm not against recolours in general. They can be very nice to realise that one design you want for a room.
Not to mention, creating completely new furniture is a lot more difficult and time-consuming.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Lyrialas#8499

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

if i had to make a guess i'd say that the whole idea of item rarity is broken on tatsu because of said individual rarity problem making "rare" items way more common the math doesn't really work in rarity's favour a lot of the time so "common" items end up being way more valuable, and that's not how rarity's supposed to work technically

according to the wiki, VR items drop with ~10% chance and common items with ~45% chance, so i'd say it's still all about the individual drop rarity [class rarity %  x  1/(number of items in the class) ] [however it also depends on what exact model of "randomness" the bot uses and how truly random it is, which is something i can't know ]

i don't know if you can tradeup the infamous gold unicorn horns my friend has like 10 of them and i think they said you can't [only up to R], but i might be wrong

 

vote boosts seem to help a great deal in making it a credit-positive minigame, but the gain still isn't that high [often in the 1k area with vote boosts, excl. the halloween boost and excl. times when you have free food from voting] - and it's still credit negative on a good amount of full fatigues [-500 - -1200; even up to -2000 without vote boosts], so i'd still say you lose on walks, on average the rebalance did do something but it's still not credit-positive on 100% of walks.

just as a basic check: suppose you do 50 walks for a full fatigue, that's -2500 in food. the chance of credits dropping is ~10%,  and the range is 300-400 - so you'll on average get anywhere from 1500 to 2000 credits, ie a loss of 500-1000 over many walks unless you're lucky. it's still credit-negative even if you count the credits you earn from sending messages ouo

 

recolours are nice *but* they shouldn't mess with the odds of getting other items imo, because it's super annoying if you're trying to get something specific but end up getting what's basically duplicates or existing shop items

i had an idea recently that tatsu could scrap giving recolours on walks entirely and instead have a "paintbrush" that you can buy for x amount of tokens that allows you to recolour an item yourself, out of a range of preset colours - but at the expense of tradability [an item recoloured with the paintbrush becomes non-tradable] so as to not create artificial scarcity of certain colours

while drawing is hard [i draw stuff as a hobby sometimes], i'd argue it's not so bad as to justify 8 recolours of the same thing especially isometric assets; the code work required to integrate this new item would probably take just as much time

Edited October 12, 2021 by ᴅᴇɪɴ'ᴛ#8467

[Lyrialas#8499]

As said, I think it's a lot more complicated than just the amount of items in the pool.
Because despite certain problems with the rarity, the majority of rare items is still more valuable than common ones.
The point is, we don't know how it works and I have no idea how reliable the wiki is. Thus I see no point in further speculations.
And yes, you can't trade up VR cosmetics.

As for the walks, I understand "a credit positive activity" as "an overall credit positive activity", which means not every full fatigue walk results in a gain.
Speculations aside, I for my part (voting bonus included) gain credits on about 90-95% of all my walks. Ranging from small losses up to 6.4k credits in a single full fatigue walk.
To put it simply, RNG's in games are usually not perfect, resulting in periods of different luck. Thus I stop and continue walking later, if it drops too bad at the beginning.

The "paintbrush" is an interesting idea. But to maintain the status quo, I'd not sell it for tokens and instead let it drop on walks. And keep painted items tradeable.
You could also exclude certain items from being paintable, resulting in them being rarer and only available via walks or buying them from lucky finders.
Additionally, you could add new colour versions for a limited time to the "drop pool" and put them afterwards in the "paint pool".

To be honest, I have no idea how long the code work takes, but I also thought of the required time to come up with new furniture and not just making them.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Lyrialas#8499

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

the drop rate and how certain items seem to drop way more than "common" ones is entirely to do with the math. as far as the value is concerned - that's because rarer items also tend to have more aesthetic appeal than common items, so there's obviously more demand for them which drives the value up [e.g.: compare the purple party headband [C] to the white flower headband [R]]

aesthetics are such a major factor in deciding the market value that they too kinda break the idea of rare = valuable - rare large aquariums sell for more than epic fishtanks, on average.

the wiki is hugely outdated tbh, it's missing a lot of new content. it'd also be nice if the wiki had a full catalogue of all items and pets that exist in the game as some sort of reference tho i kinda disagree on that last part, some of us like trying to figure out how something works even with little info to work off

 

i'd make stats about walks over a spread of 50 full cycles, but i can't atm because of the halloween boost thing. i know that the news article said that the multiplier is 1.5x and i could technically adjust the numbers to accommodate that, but i really don't think it's the case because usually the range is exactly 300-400, which would mean that during the phantom feast event you should get min 450 and max 600 - but i've gotten drops <400 and >600 on a few occasions which leads me to believe it's not 1.5x but some sort of progressive factor, idk

yeah, i find credits on every walk too - but that's not the point i'm making. i take "credit-positive" to mean "you get an absolute gain of credits over many cycles". the point i'm making is that walking is still not a credit-positive activity - you're more likely to lose credits through it, over a large spread. what the 'rebalance' did was basically split the old drop of ~1200-1500 ish credits into more frequent but smaller drops - however the probability still isn't high enough for you to break even after a fatigue cycle

 

hmm, disagree. i think it should be more accessible to people, and making painted items not tradable will help balance out the ease of access. walks already drop a bunch of recolours, so the paintbrush is actually supposed to help you get a certain colour you might want for an interior theme much easier - making it a walk drop would kinda defeat the purpose of it removing obstacles and playing with probability for a price lol

as you might've seen, some items are more valuable in specific colours, so keeping repainted items tradable isn't a good idea imho. if you make repainted items tradable then that might make a lot of other items lose their value

 

i'd guess it doesn't take super long to come up with new items unless they're big, like the halloween castle thing, because the scale is pretty small so there's only so much detail you can stick into the furniture for it to read well

[Lyrialas#8499]

Seems you misunderstood me in some points. Or did I express myself inadequately?

Of course it's math based. Never claimed something else. I just think the calculations are more complicated than you believe. Or just inconsistent?
And the higher value of rarer items can't be explained with their aesthetics (Subjective) alone. A lot of them being found in lower numbers also plays a role.

Regarding the item catalogue, did you see JokiBlue's database? Pinned in #trading-chat.
As for our speculations: I like to figure things out too, you know? But we seem to have reached a dead end, unless you have more info to add?

Hm, I never found over 600 credits so far, thus I thought it's not "x1.5", but rather "up to x1.5".
That's exactly what I meant with "an overall credit positive activity". That you make a netto gain over a long period of time. And for me it works.

Uhm, didn't you say previously you'd exchange the different colour variations for the "paintbrush"?
But wouldn't selling them for tokens hamper the accessibility for normal users a lot then? And afterwards, they wouldn't even be able to sell their recoloured items for credits?
How is that better than dropping the "paintbrush" on walks and being able to trade the recoloured items? You could even make the "paintbrush" tradeable too!
-> All would have equal chances to get the basic items, as well as the "paintbrush" required to change their colour.

Sure, individual colours would lose their worth, since you can simply change them, but instead you'd get a usable walk-only item, which will always have a worth.
And as said: If you exempt certain items (maybe above a certain rarity?), they'd still remain special and hard to get. The same could apply to old items, to prevent their devaluation.
-> The enormous item pool would cease to exist and only special items would retain individual, unchangeable colours.

Well, concentrating all important details into a small object can be pretty difficult. Maybe more so than into a bigger one.
Just take the Red Rose: If the only criterium is the recognisability, would you find it easier to draw a normal-sized one, or one that consist only out of a few pixels?

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

well, let's agree to disagree on that imho there's no point to continue going over that topic, but all imma say to that is that there's no point making something more complicated from a programming pov. you usually aim for the simplest and most effective solution, you don't look to complicate things unnecessarily because it can hurt computation speed - and basic probability + a randomiser is usually the best way to go about that. that's all on my part. :)

and the lower drop number is to do with the relative per-class item rarity that i was talking about this entire time, which again goes back to the drop pool argument.

i feel there's no need for the passive aggression yk? ovob at least that's how that first part comes off to me idk, sounds a lil condescending hmm

 

no, i haven't - bc i'm not in the tatsu server. it's kinda overwhelming for me with the number of notifications, but my friend is in it

in any case, if the wiki is linked on tatsu.gg, imo all that info should be on the wiki, not elsewhere, for the sake of organisation and having everything in one place. a wiki is supposed to be an info bible on something to the greatest extent that it can be  if joining the server isn't a prerequisite, a lot of people won't get that info. all relevant info should be in one place - just like any set of game rules, there should be a single officially-verified source where you can find all the details - which should ideally be the wiki

 

because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone especially knowing that you have vote boosts. granted there's no indication whether the drop rate boost affects credit drop rate in any way either, and the mysterious "25% increase" is still as mysterious as it was before due to lack of data. walks should be credit positive for everyone, incl those who don't get a vote streak boost.

also receipts @ getting a drop more than 600: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775021827034054710/898147520138596412/unknown.png || snowflake: 895661397311119380

and less than 400 for good measure: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775021827034054710/898148309322063872/unknown.png || snowflake: 895948734670721054

also nope, the news article says "credits found by on walks will be increased by 1.5x". :) not "up to" and not "more than"

 

in walk drops, yes because then having a brush would make those items as walk drops pointless. tokens are easier to earn after recent qol updates so there wouldn't be as much incentive to buy/sell recolours either bc you'd be able to just save up for a bit and recolour the same item as many times as you want - out of a given set of available colours [because just hue-shifting makes things muddy so you shouldn't be able to pick just any RGB base colour off the colour wheel]

 

to answer your questions:

1 - because walk drops are very rare given the drop pool size, and something as important as a paint brush will no doubt end up costing >100k a piece - money that a lot of normal users don't have readily available either. there's a ton of other nifty items that are sold for tokens just fine e.g. the pet attitude changer and the level transfer [also i too am a normal user, for context - i don't buy tokens with $$ nor am i a supporter]. by your logic we should make anything to do with pets and "workarounds" drop on walks, which i disagree with. that and a lot of us just don't have time to sit there spamming t!tg walk all day waiting for that one item we want to drop ? a lot of us are casual players with day jobs [or school/uni/etc] at the end of the day - i for one am more interested in the decoration aspect of tatsugotchi than anything else so having to do 15000 walks to get what i need/want defeats the purpose of the paintbrush yet again [source of the 15k figure: it took my friend and myself 15k walks between us to find a large cyan aquarium].

making the paintbrush a buyable item rather than another thing you've got to play the walk lottery for will keep it truly universal - it's all about adjusting the price level so that it's not too hard to get for free-to-play users - and with lower costs to get a certain colour comes the need to make painted furni non-tradable so as to not mess with the market via taking advantage of previous colour-based scarcity.

 

2 - rarer items tend not to have many colour variations, from what i noticed - if any. [e.g. pet cosmetics, fish tanks, aquariums, arcade game furni].

suppose i find a green aquarium but i want a purple one - it doesn't exist, and instead of waiting for if/when a purple one is made, i could buy a paintbrush for say 1000 tokens and recolour my aquarium. but what if i do a full redesign of my house and now want a black aquarium? you can't buy those anymore, and almost no one is selling them - if they managed to get one when they were available.

i know for a fact that some people [eg my friend] buy furni specifically with the intention of selling it later for a profit. of the few selling ads i've seen, black aquariums can easily sell for 250-300k credits. suppose now that painted items are tradable, as you suggested. if say even 100 people decide to use the paintbrush and make their aquarium black and then put it up for sale, the value of said aquariums will drop to like 150k or less in no time because all of a sudden they won't be as "limited edition" anymore, and anyone can get a black aquarium just as easily - so the sale price would have to be relatively low for people to want to buy it rather than just waiting till they get lucky.

now think about items that were released in a certain colour for supporters only, like the brown aquarium. if you got an item you thought was exclusive for real-world money and then all of a sudden free-to-play users could get that same item without spending a real cent and resell it for way less than you could've otherwise sold it, it wouldn't feel fair. making painted items tradable will basically kill exclusivity as a whole - and the answer that both doesn't limit creativity in interior design and doesn't harm exclusivity is to make an item that was painted even once non-tradable. you can paint it over as many times as you want, but you'll never be able to trade it - and perhaps this new versatility with colours will make you not want/need to sell it to begin with.

also no, this won't do anything about the drop pool problem. exclusive walk-only colours are still recolours that still bloat the drop pool. a lot of older items lose their value because they aren't considered as aesthetically appealing - take the gold unicorn horn for example. it doesn't make sense to exclude items above certain rarity from the paintbrush's scope because suppose you do have a rare item and you like it but it doesn't fit with the theme you're going for - what do you do then? not all items have more common alternatives [e.g. the sink - the green tiles in the back stick out against darker wallpapers yet there's no other sink-like furni that could replace it]. keep in mind, the paintbrush is not just meant to solve walk-furni-related problems, but also the lack of colour variants for a lot of shop-only furni.

it puts a limit on customisation which isn't good for an item that would be ridiculously hard to get, if it were made into a walk-only drop. that's why imho it should be a single-use token item, around 1000 tokens a piece. it's not so low that it can be abused but it's also not too high, if you vote and do quests and claim your dailies you can make ~1k tokens in a week and a half ish if not less.

 

on small scales, the point isn't about cramming details into them bc it'll look cluttered. instead the idea is to use shading to convey basic shapes that make it recognisable and make it read as what it's supposed to be  often you'll find yourself sacrificing details to make it readable.

there's pros and cons for either one of them. on one hand a bigger item will be way easier to make readable because you can detail it as much as you want, but it'll also take a lot more time to polish because the higher the complexity, the more visible interaction there is between the parts as far as lighting is concerned, and the more important 3D-ness becomes for it to look cohesive. on the other hand, a small item would take way less time to draw but getting it to read properly would take some messing about with colours. it's all about finding the balance with small-scale assets

eg. consider these two pieces [both are my work if anything]

 

first one's 86x31, second one's 300x314. the first one relies way more on dithering to imply detail, whereas the second one can afford to explicitly show more detail due to a bigger size ouob [tho still needs antialiasing in places to imply more smoothness than the resolution allows] //i kinda stopped doing detailed shading on anything that isn't metal/gemstone because i'm busy irl but the point still stands

Edited October 14, 2021 by ᴅᴇɪɴ'ᴛ#8467

[Lyrialas#8499]

Sorry, wasn't my intention to sound condescending or passive agressive.
Though I was a bit irritated on how you emphasized, that it's entirely up to the math behind it. As if I'd implied something else.
Guess we both read more into each others statements than intended? And what means "ovob"?

And yes, I know programs shouldbe streamlined as much as possible. Nonetheless, there are different ways to reach the same result, affecting what has which influence.
All I meant to express was, that certain things can't be explained with the item pool's size alone or even contradict it partly. My choice of words may could have been better though.
Welp, enough of that.

Yes. An official, complete source of info would be great. But the wiki is, just like the mentioned database, player made.
Here the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RqOyBO8V9JTKCSLEUsGWNuXXLSdnF3BMpcrELbaCQg0

I know the news article states otherwise. But unfortunately they aren't always 100% accurate. Thus my assumption. Which must be wrong, considering the height of your drop.
And yes, it should be credit-positive for everyone, not just for me. Although you could try out my tip and see if it helps.

Sorry, but you misunderstood my "logic". I only intended to stay close to the status quo. You don't require tokens to get different colours now and my plan was to keep it that way.
And yes, you can save up tokens. But I for my part already want to do that for the shop and events, not to mention the amount of items you may want to recolour plays a major role too.
As for the price, it would entirely depend on the "paintbrush's" drop rate. Or you get one after a certain amount of walks. There are many possible options to make them affordable.

Regarding your concerns about the exclusivity of certain items: What's the difference between excluding them from being painted and making recoloured items untradeable?
Not to mention, there's a major flaw in your argumentation. Because, why would someone wanna buy a special item for a lot of credits, if you can just make it yourself out of a cheap one?
And what would those say, who spent real money or treasured their scarce item? Whether you can only create or also trade them, if the amount of such items raises, their worth drops.

Scrap the parts about a rarity threshold and coloured items switching from walk-only to a "paintbrush" colour option. Excluding certain old items to preserve their worth should suffice.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I get the feeling both of us see the advantages of being able to change colours in general, just that we have different ideas on how to achieve it.
Including our worries the "paintbrush" could be too expensive/hard to find, although it's only a question of making the right adjustments.

Thx for the explanation. To me it sounds, as if the eye of the creator is the more deciding factor for the time it takes to create items for Tatsu?
Like, are they better with finding the fitting colours or the right variations of light and shade?

Edited October 15, 2021 by Lyrialas#8499

[4ᴛʜ.ᴇɴᴛʀᴏᴘʏ#8467]

mmm still kinda sours the mood you feel me? we all deal with frustrations differently but i feel disagreement over a game isn't a reason to take it out on me or any other person really. to me it kinda came off as if you were trying to say it's way more than just basic probability but yeah loll

ovob we cool dw

also ovob is a text emote, ovo is the face [o=eye, v=mouth] and b is a thumbs-up

tl;dr both sides are valid until proven otherwise, let's leave it at that ovob idk if tatsu's code is available on github or something but maybe if i find myself having more time than i know what to do with i can sit down and scan through the code, i'm no expert but i did a few things in c and python as part of my engineering degree tho usually the aim is to reach the same result with the minimum calculation complexity, you'd try not to include other variables unless you absolutely must [also true of stuff like fea simulations and mathematical models, you try to simplify it as much as possible but in such a way that it's still a good enough approximation of real behaviour otherwise you'll either be able to fry eggs on your gpu or end up waiting for days for it to finish [or both really], it's an extreme example but it shows what happens with really big calculations]

 

it feels so weird to me that the wiki is linked on the official webpage but is incomplete it doesn't sit right but i hope they complete/revamp it someday. i'd do it but i can't code in php and don't really have the time to learn it either lol rip

dang i should really make some data on this now, the data freak in me wants to create a table should ask a friend to join in if they can because i also need data without vote boosts  

sadly it seems tatsu has a running theme of inaccurate/incomplete/confusing info tho you're right eg the exp sodas, it says that it'll give your pet x number of levels but it actually gives 42000 exp [small] which may or may not be that number of levels dep on what lvl your pet already is, so that's misleading [idk if they still have the same description but my guess is yes] //or the bottles of time god don't get me started on those the description is so confusing, i had no idea what they did until i used one- even the vote streak boost of "25%" is really vague and no one can tell you what the raw numbers are

 

honestly i think a guaranteed drop thing would be nice? for walks, a bit like how they made the guaranteed legendary counter for pet+ capsules

because it's super annoying to sit there spamming t!tg walk when there's something really specific that you want and just not finding it with no indication whether you're just super unlucky or need to be patient

both the drop rate and the demand, to varying degrees tho i'd still argue that it should be a buyable item like the pet attitude changer and the level transfer because it'll be easier to get then. i'm guessing that quite a few people are free-to-play users. if there's some event stuff i want i tend to just focus on getting that first and then go back to saving up for other stuff i might want

 

ah, there's a huge difference! making them non-paintable = a limit on customisation. them not being tradable isn't that big of a deal, because if you can customise an item that you otherwise like aside from the colour, chances are you won't be looking to sell/trade it to begin with. i'm thinking of having like a set of colours that you can pick from, eg black, white, brown, red, pink, green, purple, blue, cyan, orange, yellow, grey, gold [?]. this would solve a ton of problems in one go, from that old thread where someone was asking for a black wallpaper to the more recent one where someone asked for tvs that aren't wood. with the paintbrush all you'd need to do is recolour it and you've got your dream item

i don't think that's a flaw actually, but a design feature it's the same reason why whales exist in gacha games and why pay-to-win is a thing. it's why people spend 100s of $ on tokens to buy pet capsules rather than just trying luck and/or buying them one at a time and waiting till they get what they want. it's cheaper to be patient, but do all people have the same amount of patience? for example i'm the type who'd first try to get something the cheaper way but then give up eventually and just buy it [tho not for real money], even if being patient really would've been cheaper. did that with the towel, bought one off my friend even tho i could have technically waited till i found one myself. the item market exists not only because people want to sell stuff, but also because there's people who either don't have the patience to get it themselves or want something at a reduced price [applies to in-shop items mostly]. buying stuff, even for a higher price, is a shortcut to getting your hands on something quickly.

if someone had a scarce item they treasured, why would they care about its market value? it shouldn't matter if they had no intention of selling it. you'd still be able to tell the "real" one apart from the painted ones because the real one would be the only tradable one. people keep lots of old stuff irl because of sentimental value, not necessarily because of monetary value - even tho replicas and knock-offs are a thing. //then again i think tatsu has a weird perception of value here too bc supporter items are somehow only worth 30k [? idk according to that one news article anyway] if you sell them back to the bot, which makes 0 sense to me considering they're limited edition lol, feels a bit like melting your grandma's old wedding ring for gold

+ not all people might have the tokens to buy a paintbrush immediately but do have the credits - they just might not have the patience to save up [like me sometimes ]. that's why you've got lots of people offering to buy a token-only item and resell it to you for credits, like bathtubs and such. the value is still somewhat protected simply by the fact of being unable to trade a painted item - it's not "on the market" if you don't have any way of selling it. if someone wants to buy the item rather than buying some "base" form of it and repainting it, they'll only be able to buy an original scarce one, which would most likely still keep a good % of its value because tradability would define its scarcity, not just the fact of being one of the few of its kind.

true that really tho i hope tatsu considers this idea as a whole cause it'd solve so many problems with customisation

 

np! it's also to do with individual skills and what you're more experienced with drawing. i for example don't have much experience drawing animals, but will happily draw props, people and design stuff - so i'll take longer on an animal than i would on designing a new prop or something even if the animal's smaller. i personally have a feeling that the house and the pets were made by 2 different artists, because the pets are pillow-shaded and the shading lacks contrast so they don't really pop as much as the textures in the house, for example

on smaller scales you need to be way bolder with the contrast in places where you use it so that the item's depth reads better

Edited October 15, 2021 by ᴅᴇɪɴ'ᴛ#8467